I totally agree with you Boon. I like to see facts, not what people thinks the facts are or should be. I'm not blinded by pride

I won't go into all the different issues brought up in here - but I'll lay down a few. If Saddam didn't have weapons of mass destruction then what the hell was he using to keep all of the other countries away from Iraq's resources. He used the threat of these weapons. Sure the americans didn't find the weapons there because guess what : Saddam had at least a couple of months prior warning to the US occupation that the US were coming. He had more than enough time to hide those weapons and or ship them over the border to Syria.

America is copping alot of blame over the whole thing but face the facts - Saddam had to be stopped before he actually used those weapons or killed anymore of his own people. The american's took the lead (the only war the americans weren't late too) and sure there could be what some people consider mistakes, but really - they went to do a job and without them Saddam would probably be still killing people.

As an Australian I hear alot of crap about americans, europeans, asians and many other different races. We don't like to make fun of the way anyone runs their country because to put it simply: It's theirs not ours so we should just mind our own business.

Learn to accept these differences and just leave it be. Sure we might see these differences as faults but that's because we are brought up on a different belief system.

Just want to make this point clear: America might be corrupt but if it is then so are all of the other nations out there. America is just the one in the spotlight taking all of the blame because they alone out of all of the world's nations decided to put up their hand and slap down a force that could have ultimately changed the course of life on earth.

We live in a complicated world, with many different cultures, races, opinions, countries, religions and social systems but at the end of the day we're all Human.

We make mistakes, fix these mistakes and then remake them all over again just so we can fix them. Stop all the crap on which country is more corrupt or the real reason behind an issue you haven't seen 1st hand. and just learn to try and exist on this planet with some degree of tolerance.

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Duck

there were no "weapons of mass destruction" bush went over there for the oil, thought that was clear enough.

if he had them and shipped them, or w.e why didnt they find em in syria?..






weirdo.werido.weirdo

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Abib wrote:there were no "weapons of mass destruction" bush went over there for the oil, thought that was clear enough.

if he had them and shipped them, or w.e why didnt they find em in syria?..






weirdo.werido.weirdo

They had long enough to hide or sell them to wherever they wanted to. If there were no 'weapons of mass destruction' then how was it Saddam was laying waste to so many people? Even our government has reports that still exist concerning iraq's weapons of mass destruction...

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Duck

Duck you clearly don't know what your talking about. Even before the U.S invaded Irak the United Nations made a minition instigation and reaserched most of the country for the weapons on mass destruction. Saddam had none and none were found. None of the factories in Irak were properly build to create such weapons. If Saddam knew of the threat the America wanted to invade them for their oil why would he go on selling them if he claimed he didnt have any. C'mon Duck at least try to make some sense here. It's known fact that he had none of that type of weapons and it's also know fact that america didnt truly invade Irak because of weapons of mass destruction. Saddam did commit genocide but I believe that was amongst the people living in his country and was a matter of religious belief. He was in war with Iran in the past because of territory dispute. The way it worked, more territory = more oil. Also their conflict was religious. The persians versus the arabs. Islam is a religion with a minor group separated from the real religion. Like catholics and protestants Islam has Sunnites and Shi3a. The shi3a are the minority and came from old Persia and Iran today. These two sides of religion have always been at war just like catholics were at war with protestants in the old days. Other countries were not threatened by Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction. First of all he had none, secondly his military power along with Iran's military power was great enough to take over bordering countries if he wanted to but Saddam had nothing against them. He was just doing his war with Iran stuff.

About America being corrupt and it being in the *spotlight*.
*sight*
Please inform yourself about these subjects before you make this kinda comment to me. I mean it's ok you want to defend a country you respect and like but that dosn't cut through facts to me. Bring me evidance that other countries are as corrupted than America is and we'll talk about it then.


Just like Abiba said....

W I E R D O W I E R D O W I E R D O

wow we over there for oil eh. i wish theyd hurry up and kick asses and get it then. gas prices are kicking me in the nuts. give us all the oil god damnit.

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LOV FOR LIFE

Meh, its only 75 cents a litre where I live, before the price raise is was 45 cents a litre.

its went down a tad here. $2.15 a gallon ffs

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LOV FOR LIFE

The Afghanis burned a lot of their own oil pits before the country was taken over causing millions of damage. Some prefered that noone get money off the oil pits if it was to be stolen from them. Poor people have had their main country ressource stolen from them and there is nothing anyone can do or will do about it.

Rest assured, gas running car days are almost over. Thats a promise technology made us.

oh yah Hybrids are Swankyyyyyyy


but i need something to burn ppl with
theres no pizaaaaaaaassssss without the petrolum...

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The oil barons are getting kicked off the chessboard one by one and their profit and territiries go to only party. American government. I'm not asking for them to even care about world interests as long as they respect human life witch they don't and will never. If your life is worth something to them, you better hide because they'll find a reason or an excuse to come get you and they most probably will.

"Cannabis is one of the safest medicinally active substances known to man and is known to relieve nausea and pain in all kinds of patients, namely the terminally ill. Who makes billions supplying inferior drugs and exploiting the dying? The pharmaceutical companies."


Research at the University of Minnesota on Cannabis and by products of cannabis have found 9 people out of 10 are allergic to it. Its 8 times more canceriuosthan cigarettes and the reason it relieves pain is because people have a allergic reaction to it... It may be stronger than cotton but those are facts.

And on the part of the sunflower oil thinger or what ever yes that sucks but oh well.... and the Hybrids f*** those cars... I dont like em thats me but f*** em I will never drive them.

And NatureWarrior I still find it funny how you bash America like we are the big bad country who is out to control the world... Just find that funny... Another thing is you say it was a religious war.... I remember a man in the 1930s and 40s that was waging a religious war.... ill give you a clue his first name started with a 'A' and his last name started with a 'H'.

and the guy that gave those figures about civillian causulties.... i had 24 people i considered family in Iraq after we captured Saddam.... 6 were killed by so called civillians... Now tell me do you think those numbers are accurate... just because they look like a civillian doesnt mean they are...

NatureWarrior you asked me if I had ever seen a plane crash... Yes I have. Have you ever seen a plane crash into a building before? Most plane crashes happen in open fields because pilots look for places they can "land" the plane where they can maybe save a few people... One of the things my grandpa did in the Air Force was study plane crashes of all types with many different types of planes. I've been around the Air Force testing grounds many times when my grandpa was simulating all types of crashes so don't talk about something you know nothing about... Have you done testing simulations to find out what exactly would happen? I happen to also know how metal reacts in a closed super heated spot I live in Minnesota. AKA "The Iron Range" theres a reason for that.

The American people were never played the reason most think that we were is because us going into Iraq for the sole purpose of Weapons of Mass Destruction was played by the American Media(which is in no part controlled by the Government watch some it youll see alot of them bashing Bush.) They talked nothing about the genocide going on in Iraq because that wouldnt get the same ratings as certain death would.

The quarrels in Africa have also been started by old European Powers such as the Dutch, French, and The Brittish naming off the most prominent. They divided the country up seperating tribes and families. Look at what tribe live where boarders cut some tribes in half. America also sends the most support into the continent.

Ad the Area 51 part in my previous post was sarcasim dumb ass... Where do you think the Stealth Bomber Tech. was created and perfected and proved at? Its nothing more than a secure base to work on top secret programs... Nothing more its not the center of some HUGE conspiracy as some would like to think. And I have never seen an episode of X-Files it just never appealed to me.

LOL Chirac didn't goto war with Iraq because France had previously sold weapons to Iraq. I also bet your going to tell me that I'm full of shit for saying that but... I'm not. It is a fact that France sold materials, parts to make, and actual parts to make a Rail Gun that could shoot Israel. Yes, France is a very neutrul country indeed...

And the reason I brought up 'ancient wars' was because despite they may have happened MANY years ago they still affect us in some way today. Now you will probably say I'm full of shit for saying that too but its not my fault if your to stubborn to believe me.

And by the way.... If America is such a bad country how come we send the most relief aid to more parts of the world than anyone else?

But more importantly who sent us relief aid after 9/11? I don't remember Anyone clammering together to send us shit to help us clean that up. I mean alot of people felt bad for us so on and so forth but I don't remember us recieving a million dollars to clean it up...

Also a more controversial war in recent history was veitnam... Your all neutrul France is the country that started that war. Now please STFU all you are out to do is say America is evil and does nothing for the rest of the world... Let me ask you this. When shit gets f***** up who does everyone turn to for help? Its America, and when you don't need our help any more its OMFG AMERICA IS EVIL. Btw We also have seperation of Church and State much like the French just not to that extreme...

Now let me leave you with 2 quotes. And a few after thoughts.


Who goes there? An American!
Brain and spirit and brawn and heart,
'Twas for him that the nations spared
Each to the years its noblest part;
Till from the Dutch, the Gaul, the Celt
Blossomed the Soul of Roosevelt
Student, trooper, and gentleman
Level-lidded with times and kings,
His the voice for a comrade's cheer
His the ear when the saber rings.
Hero shades of the old days melt
In the quick pulse of Roosevelt.
Hand that is molded to hilt of sword;
Heart that ever has laughed at fear;
Type and pattern of civic pride;
Wit and grace of the cavalier;
All that his fathers prayed and felt
Gleams in the glance of Roosevelt.
Who goes there? An American!
Man to the core- as men should be.
Let him pass through the lines alone,
Type of the Sons of Liberty,
Here where his fathers' fathers dwelt,
Honor and faith for Roosevelt.
- Grace Duffie Boylan

Measure iniquity by the heart, whether a man's purse be full or empty, partly full or partly empty. If the man is a descent man, whether well off or not well off, stand by him; if he is not a decent man stand against him, whether he be rich or poor. - Theodore Roosevelt

And I like to think that all people do this measure a man if he is decent. Not by what is in his bank account. And from what most of the rest of the world thinks is Bush went to Iraq to make his wallet bigger. Granted the public thought it was only weapons of mass destruction or what not. Maybe NASA faked the moon landings, maybe (extremely doutful in my mind) the entire attack on the Pentagon was staged. But in the end will you not measure a man by how decent and upright a man is. I know Bush has f***** up in some of the stuff he's done but don't ANY of you think the right he has done out ways what he has done wrong? Or will you just be biggits and not see the good he has done ARE you NatureWarrior blinded by your hatred for Bush? Think of what good he has done. Good and Bad. In my mind he has done more good. And the bad he has done was with good intentions.

I'm done reading this thread. If you have something to say go ahead and say it but I will not respond nor read it I have said what I wanted to say and will now let it drop. Sure you can go on bashing America cause I think thats what you live to do. But I will not bother to read it anymore.

-Impe

Necro - Saddam has or had weapons. They whole world blurted out warnings about the UN going to inspect ages before they even went. Trust me he had them. But yes Oil was a huge factor in it - I don't dispute that

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Duck

blob wrote:and the guy that gave those figures about civillian causulties.... i had 24 people i considered family in Iraq after we captured Saddam.... 6 were killed by so called civillians... Now tell me do you think those numbers are accurate... just because they look like a civillian doesnt mean they are...

No, I don't think all iraqies which looks like civilians are civilians. Neither do i expect all iraqie resistance members to wear uniforms.

As for the number of civilian iraqie casulties, the conservative estimate (and probably the best) comes from http://www.iraqbodycount.net.

I've said enough also. It is clear our opinions of the matter are different and it is also clear Duck has no clue what his Aussie ass is talking about(Saddam had weapons of mass destruction)(DUDE?!? U CAN'T HIDE A WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION UNDER A PILLOW, they are special equipment and sensors to help detect the presence of nuclear weaponry) We do agree on some things like marijuanna. Some potheads would just love to see weed legalized (f****** hippies lol). But on the most we are in disagreement. I see no need to talk about this subject anymore. It was nice talking politics with an American father.

With all due respect to Impe (not Duck)

ps to concerned people. me and Impe not talking politics anymore is not a reason to lock the thread. its funny how many threads are locked for no valuable reason.