actually adam history has proven time and time again the overly vocal minority is usually wrong and stupid.

lies!
lol.. look at all the horrible shit in history that the "majority" thought was the right thing to do...
another example.. look at religion...
there are more muslims than christians.. does this make them right?
id say both are wrong.. but yea.. my point is.. the majority really doesn't mean shit... what does mater is how the majority can be manipulated..

and its not as hard as you would think to manipulate the majority....
bush administration.. iraq war
the church... witch hunts
hitler.. the jews...
ect ect ect..
masses are easily manipulated..
50 idiots can say the sky is cloudy.. while it only takes one person to look up and see its clear..
majority means didly...

not to mention... the constitution was based to do exactly the opposite of what you said.. it was set in place to protect the rights of the minority from the retarded majority messin shit up... and that my friend.. is history..
why is this you ask.. why do we need a document to protect the minority from the majority voting otherwise? with out some type of control in place.. the majority will run anything into the ground.. and anyone with any concept of power and how things really work should see this..
lol.. do u not wonder why ur rights and your constitution is being striped away little by little.. because it is the "control"... the ppl in power are not afraid of the large majority.. its because its easily manipulated or to stupid to know whats right and whats wrong...

and historicly looking back at all this it wont mater ne ways.. cause in 5 min imma be playing black ops and this subject will be history to me as of then.. lol..


wes.. u need to take ur broke ass to the store.. and buy a ps3... and black ops.. and you can be my buddy

i shall buy a ps3 as soon as i get a big ass flat screen 1080p to enjoy the blu ray.

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Scathach of Skye - Pure Ranger

so in other words you would have all your characters have to conform to a certain mold? because if humans get race abilities then they also have to pick a class...TERRIBLE IDEA

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Ankhesenamun
Dedo Serenity
Fisherwmn
Ruby Estella
Enchantress

well if thats the case then classes need to be re worked...due to limitations such as rangers with their shitty armor.human warriors can have all the skills for pvp needed n wear Plate...+ do 100% dmg with both melee n archery....rangers??? they just have to settle for less.

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Scathach of Skye - Pure Ranger

wow... way to take the US. constitution's purpose way out of context and then slaughter it with an axe and a +4 stam + 4 str leather belt :/

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king of the run on sentence.

Rippa wrote:well if thats the case then classes need to be re worked...due to limitations such as rangers with their shitty armor.human warriors can have all the skills for pvp needed n wear Plate...+ do 100% dmg with both melee n archery....rangers??? they just have to settle for less.

last I checked warrior class does 75% damage with archery...yes right now human warriors would over power ranger chars....we have also been told that rangers will one day have different armor types but life happens and that has been delayed... I think it would be a much better idea to wait and see what Bob has in mind before we ask to have everything moved around again... more change is not the answer to the problems figuring out what you have to work with and what will work for you is

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Ankhesenamun
Dedo Serenity
Fisherwmn
Ruby Estella
Enchantress

Dedo wrote:

Rippa wrote:well if thats the case then classes need to be re worked...due to limitations such as rangers with their shitty armor.human warriors can have all the skills for pvp needed n wear Plate...+ do 100% dmg with both melee n archery....rangers??? they just have to settle for less.

last I checked warrior class does 75% damage with archery...yes right now human warriors would over power ranger chars....we have also been told that rangers will one day have different armor types but life happens and that has been delayed... I think it would be a much better idea to wait and see what Bob has in mind before we ask to have everything moved around again... more change is not the answer to the problems figuring out what you have to work with and what will work for you is

didnt know that rangers would get their own armors... hopefully that does happen n its more useful than chainmail.

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Scathach of Skye - Pure Ranger

Dedo wrote:so in other words you would have all your characters have to conform to a certain mold? because if humans get race abilities then they also have to pick a class...TERRIBLE IDEA

dedo.. that is the whole point! it is the basis of the entire thread...

here lets put it like this..... lets say you had 4 kids.. and you went to McDonalds... and you were just going to randomly order something for the kids to feed them.. Would you order 3 Burger Happy Meals and 1 Chicken Nugget Happy Meal?
Prolly not.. cause when you got home there would be a huge fight for who got the Chicken Nugget...

the whole poing of giving humans classes... is so that you can then BALANCE all the classes... I don't see why ppl are missing the point here.. the whole point is that if all your races had the same class system.. it would be rather easy to create balance amung them.. this is without even considering racial abilities... that can be done later.. I am speaking of a core balance between classes.. (including humans)
bottom line.. you cant balance classes against classes while trying to balance classes against humans that don't have classes..

Classes are here... they didn't used to be.. you can't expect humans to function the same way as they did prior to classes being implemented... lol... its laughable to me that no one can see the light..

chips LL wrote:wow... way to take the US. constitution's purpose way out of context and then slaughter it with an axe and a +4 stam + 4 str leather belt :/

"It does not take a majority to prevail. But rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." -Samuel Adams

but yes its quite clear that the constitution protects the rights of the minority against the majority... and when i speak of minority I am not speaking of blacks, mexicans, ect... I am speaking in terms of a vote takes 51% to win.. the constitution protects the other 49%(minority) I was only using the constitution as an example... that the majority are not always right.. but don't say i slaughtered the US Constitution.. i don't think thats a road you want to travel with me...
the minority has the right to actively protest the acts of the majority.. without fear of imprisonment or death.. this is your constitution my friend.
don't speak to me about "slaughtering" the constitution when you clearly don't even know what animal it is.... lol..

if the constitution didn't protect us from the retarded majority.. you'd have idiots destroying constitution piece by piece by pice... (ex. the bible belt) lol..

there is no point in arguing what the constitution does with you.. it is what it is.. but ne ways.. back to the topic of why humans should have classes

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not one of you have told me WHY humans should NOT have classes...
with the exception of someone saying the shard has always been balanced to humans...

but this is actually incorrect.. pvp was hardly ever balanced off of humans in general... it was almost exclusively balanced off of the vampire warrior vs the human mage.. and that makes up the most of obsidian's life span.. however.. classes were never an issue..

you cannot implement a class system and leave one race exempt (especially with vet rewards in place).. its just a retarded concept.. new players will see this.. they wont like it.. and they will leave... because what they will be able to accomplish with a racial warrior or ect. the older player can do on a human warrior with a vet reward and no limitations...
the only ppl that would be against it is the cry babies that already have there chars. built... which still is hardly a big deal at all... RACE STONES!
if you people want a population you are going to have to learn to be less selfish..

I think what has hurt this shard more than anything is the fact that almost anyone of any importance to this shard.. is now gone... and what remains.. well... blind trying to lead the blind.. its a sad thing actually considering you actually have someone that is doing work on the shard that BB never found the time to accomplish..
to bad the population of opinions which may drive that is horribly flawed..

adam_c wrote: and its not as hard as you would think to manipulate the majority.... i know this look at health care bill.... you proved my point right there....
bush administration.. iraq war justified for the only reason sadam's crimes against humanity.
the church... witch hunts again that wasnt the majority it was a few people crying foul and convincing the majority so kinda proving my point...
hitler.. the jews... again an overly vocal minority making policy and convincing everyone it was the right thing to do.
ect ect ect..
masses are easily manipulated..
50 idiots can say the sky is cloudy.. while it only takes one person to look up and see its clear..
majority means didly...

not to mention... the constitution was based to do exactly the opposite of what you said.. it was set in place to protect the rights of the minority from the retarded majority messin shit up... and that my friend.. is history.. yes but more often than not the minority that screams the loudest gets what they want stripping the civil liberties away from the majority.
why is this you ask.. why do we need a document to protect the minority from the majority voting otherwise? with out some type of control in place.. the majority will run anything into the ground.. and anyone with any concept of power and how things really work should see this..
lol.. do u not wonder why ur rights and your constitution is being striped away little by little.. because it is the "control"... the ppl in power are not afraid of the large majority.. its because its easily manipulated or to stupid to know whats right and whats wrong... again here is proof of my point the health care bill... a small portion of the population wanted this severe leftest agenda passed same with a small portion of our elected officials. it passed after they bought a lot of votes with perks for people's states to get there vote. again the minority that is loudest got what it wanted.

and historicly looking back at all this it wont mater ne ways.. cause in 5 min imma be playing black ops and this subject will be history to me as of then.. lol.. black ops sucks.


wes.. u need to take ur broke ass to the store.. and buy a ps3... and black ops.. and you can be my buddy im done with console gaming....

fact is making humans a "race" is f****** dumb and a human warrior vs a raced warrior is not any better than the raced one in a pvp match. and literally making humans a "race" and screwing with a race that has been like this since day 1 is stupid. humans were always supposed to be like this and BB had said that races were not going to stay the same. so why make drastic changes when only small ones are needed? you fail to see the forest for the trees....

like u said.. humans have been like this since day 1..
classes were just recently implemented..

the class system and the way humans work do not coincide.. its pretty much as simple as that...

and as far as what you mess with.. it really don't mater.. balance is the objective.. and in order to reach it.. this shit wont work..
like i said.. you can't balance classes to classes.. while trying to balance classes to humans when humans have no classes...
humans are the third wheel that wobbles in terms of balance...

its either this or do way with the whole class system in general... or carry on like you are and end up with shit..


initially i thought the idea of classes was retarded when i returned... and it almost stopped me from even giving the game a second chance.. but after a bit more consideration.. i realized that hidden behind the class system.. is an opportunity.. to finally have the shard balanced... but you cant accomplish this unless u put humans into the same category...

the real problem you have here is a shard full of ppl you know very little in terms of balance or pvp... trying deciding the course of its direction...

well im done on the topic.. i told you why it needs to be done this way and no one has yet to say any legitimate reason why it shouldn't.. there is nothing to discuss when all you have countering your suggesting is "thats stupid" or "ill be a whiny bitch and quit"

so yea.. if u ever want shit done right come find me and i might bail u out..

wow, adam i know that,it does protect the minority from the majority... shit it says that.. . but in the context you used it was wrong...
anyway your right its not a road i want to take with you.. but no convo is tbh lol

but ya waiste of time persueing that.. anyway.....

the reasons humans won't be considered a race-
because BB said he didnt want it like that.. which basically ends that arguement...

the reasons i dont think humans should be considered a race-

Obsidian has NEVER had humans with 780 skill cap, and no skill restriction...
and races 680 skills with no skill restriction and race skills
even though i do agree this would make it easy to balance,
it would also make this game really easy... just like every other free mmo out there..
cookie cutter characters w/ cookie cutter skills.. this is balanced yes...
but is this entertainment? no... it's bland and boring..

I do agree what you said before though, if people think things need to change in a area / we have problemed areas, it should be changed.... until its fixed / removed

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king of the run on sentence.

races/classes just need a little tweaking in order to make them balanced again people are failing to see that and think 1 race (humans) need to be majorly overhauled. to me that just makes no sense what so ever.

since we are speaking of American gov't lets stick with the analogies. in American Gov't we have a system of checks and balances. Right now obs is balanced as far as char types are concerned we are still working on the finer points but it is balanced. We have the humans who can master any set of skills balancing out the severely limited classes which allow you 100 extra skills but limit those skills to a cookie cutter formation. so all the classes are checks on each other making sure there isn't one super stronger then the others (in theory) and the humans have the veto power. LIKE THE OWNER INTENDED. as Chips said there is no argument needed past the fact that BB likes it that way so thats the way it is. as for bringing up vet rewards benefiting older players...well duh thats what they are their for....10 skill points a year doesn't get you real far if you play every day you can get 10 skill pts in a few days then have to wait another year to get the next 10. So yes for some players who have been here 10 years congrats! I'm glad you got your points and hope you use them to womp in everyone!.

and Adam yes I agree the whole point of this thread is a terrible idea

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Ankhesenamun
Dedo Serenity
Fisherwmn
Ruby Estella
Enchantress

ya i think vet rewards should be removed... and replaced with something that is fair...

cuz like bob said, most of the people with good vet benefits havent even been playing that long, they just received the accounts..

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king of the run on sentence.