When I was told that luring an animal into a gate was "abusing AI", the following debate comes to mind...

What about when you make monsters attack one another? Is that not the same?

What about when you use bears for that matter so that drakes damage one another? Is that not the same?

What about when you attack a monster and run away from the others, so that you can single them out? Is that not the same?

YES. Of course it is the same. It is natural of the game itself. These fellows must understand that it is the mechanics of the game and not something unintentional (a bug).

Wake up. Either declare this a non-pvp shard and all of you have your fraternity and brotherhood of love together (without the PvP oriented characters, and people who like doing evil) or cope with it.

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Judas [Cult] The Traitor
Doro [Cult] The Zealot



'And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.' - Friedrich Nietzsche

just accept the rules ?

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king of the run on sentence.

I agree about the ride gating especially since a few years ago we had this same arguement about wether or not it was against the rules and CV, who was around then, said that there was absolutely nothing wrong with it. I think something was changed so that no longer works now tho. But as far as making monsters attack one another i believe if it is done purposely it is against the rules. Pretty tough to prove tho i think considering it happens a lot on its own.

When it comes to AI, basically there are 2 modes...loitering and attack. Anything that a critter does on it's own (including walk through a gate) is part of one of the modes...so is attacking other monsters, and walking away from a group of other monsters to be attacked easier. I don't think that any of those things are abuse... generic programming maybe, but not abuse. To be classified as abuse or a bug you would have to somehow have to make the critter do something that is outside one of the 2 modes, or not related to basic behavior....... finding a way to turn a dragon into a statue and then killing it without it retaliating..thats abuse.. finding a way to get the drake away from the dragons so you don't get ass raped...thats just playing the game (FYI, dragons love gold on the ground).

To be honest, if you read the rules - most of that is in there (so ya, against the rules).

As for the stealing of rides... I think the only thing that was changed is that a ride must be 'herded' through a gate - rather than cast upon (i.e. no casting harm on a ride to make it run at you).

Also if I remember correctly, confining a ride within a house or another static structure (that you have stolen) is illegal. The only reason I point that out is that I've seen this a few times of late. Anyone who thinks this is stupid, may I point out - what is the point in the use of a Pet Protection Potion if some mofo can still steal it.

chips LL wrote:just accept the rules ?

In all cases I agree 100% with this. This game has been around a long enough for people to know right from wrong. Thus people afking & whatnot...no excuses.

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Miner/Smith/Lumberjack/Carpenter/Cartographer
Alchemist/Fisherman/Tamer/Warrior/Daemon

The rules were changed without any reason. It was because whoever thought it was unfair... And rules have to be based on something, unless BB says otherwise. Even staff have to respect those principles. So no, if it is a rule that is completely bogus, it should be reviewed.

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Judas [Cult] The Traitor
Doro [Cult] The Zealot



'And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.' - Friedrich Nietzsche

The AI is pretty simple, as AI's goes. Over the years i've done some upgrades to it, but it still has a long way to go before it is as smart as i'd like it. Like any AI, it can be "tricked" into making stupid decisions, that while they are programmatically correct, are technically bugs because they shouldn't normally reach that behavior. Or in lamens terms:

Understanding abusing AI is a pretty simple. All you need to do is ask yourself on any situation, "If the monster was as smart as a relatively stupid dog, would it still do this?"

Judas[Cult] wrote:When I was told that luring an animal into a gate was "abusing AI", the following debate comes to mind...

Would an animal who is attacking you jump into a moongate, or run around the stupid thing? It would run around it to get to you. Now there is code in-place to allow this to happen, so this particular abuse of AI can't happen again.

Judas[Cult] wrote:What about when you make monsters attack one another? Is that not the same?

Nope, not the same. While dogs can fight over meat, they usually do so after the threat is neutralized. IF you are still "around" and the only thing keeping the monsters fighting is you hiding around a stone 2 squares away, then that's due to a lapse in the target awareness. This should get fixed in another upgrade in a few weeks, just haven't had time to do it. If you're in combat with an npc, and they start fighting, you better be fighting at least one of them actively.

Judas[Cult] wrote:What about when you use bears for that matter so that drakes damage one another? Is that not the same?

A relatively stupid dog will end up doing stuff in fights that hurts itself or others. For example tackling an enemy off a steep hill and fighting on its way down. What's not the same is when you use that trick to make the monsters fight each other on purpose. Since one they eliminate the summoned animal, they would stop caring since it left no meat to fight over.

Judas[Cult] wrote:What about when you attack a monster and run away from the others, so that you can single them out? Is that not the same?

Nope, even pack animals can be lured away by cunning enough hunters. That being said i have debated some AI upgrades to the pack mentality of some monsters and even letting them "run and get help", but honestly i don't think the shard needs it as a whole and i'd only implement it on certain monsters.


I hope this cleared up the grey areas for you.
But as i said, if it's ever a grey area, usually its just safer to not do it. If you really need an answer, just ask if a moderately stupid dog would do it.

I have a pretty dumb dog.....she's a long hair miniature dachshund...she sits under the pear tree and runs to try and let the falling pears hit her on the head...then she goes out to the horse field and plays her favorite "you can't step on me" game with Topper (my horse). If I use my dog as my standard on how monster AI should work, I'm gonna be fricken superman.

lmfao.
im glad my dogs a genius...

he's the nicest chiwawa ever :/
no growling or biting ankles... just licks and play time

he brings me w,e toy he wants to play with... made his own bed (not lieing)
learned how to throw some of his toys to play with himself...
it's rather amazing.. he can learn new things like laydown and highfive by command in like 5 minutes... better then this little girl up the street i still can't teach the *high five in the middle down low to slow trick* to
also learned how to annoy me, so i will continue petting him and he kinda moves his body or moves my hand with his paw to the part where he wants me to rub lol....
I r hate being out smarted by my dog:(

but thats so offtopic

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king of the run on sentence.

Your dog is not a genius, all dogs like peanut butter.

i rarerly feed him penut butter..
even though i heart it was good for them...

but when i re read my post i sound stupid LOL, but its not the fact that he does them, just the speed he learns
and when i say made his bed..
he got pillows and stuff put them on a chair, and got a towel... we replaced the towel with a real blanket.. but his bed was a soft cage with soft blanket in it that stayed open before that...
its hard to explain....

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king of the run on sentence.

Forget it i don't think you got the joke.

no i didn't i was sure it was a joke. but it just flys over my head,,,
sowwys maybe its not the dog thats smart LOL

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king of the run on sentence.

Go see road trip

oh it is a joke referring to a movie, well that makes me feel better, i never seen that

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king of the run on sentence.