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| Human Race http://www.dxgaming.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=22465 |
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| Author: | adam_c [ Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Human Race |
I know its done been discussed.. but.. Bob, I'd like to bring it up just once more before we get all the kinks worked out... lets consider the possiblity of giving humans racial abilities.. and also giving them limitations to go along with it... lets think that over and consider how it would go a long way to balance out a lot of issues.. most not rite off the bat of course but I think if you look past everything and focus on the larger picture it would be the best choice to make.. this would need to be done before work is done on magery however.. so that mages will be able to be balanced with everything else Im only bringing this up because i think in the long run it will make things a lot easier... personally with a system involving vet rewards and the human race with no limitations on anything... you are asking for a probematic system that will be hard as hell to keep balance.. but if you give them benefits and the same draw backs as the other races... (only different) it would go a long way to give u the building blocks for a much more stable balanced system |
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| Author: | Wes [ Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Human Race |
no |
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| Author: | adam_c [ Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Human Race |
it would make things easier to balance.... |
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| Author: | Apocalypse [ Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Human Race |
not just no but hell no, if that happens i quit for sure I dont even use races, i turned my vamp i had since i started, into a human because it wasnt what i was expecting. |
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| Author: | maher [ Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Human Race |
humans are good enough, alot of good warriors are human.. cus u can gm w/e u want. |
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| Author: | Wes [ Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Human Race |
maher i believe thats his point but i still say no. reason humans can gm what they want is because they have less skill points and no race abilities... adam think of humans as a control group :/ |
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| Author: | adam_c [ Thu Nov 11, 2010 4:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Human Race |
humans are not a control group.. if that was the case they would be the fabric that held it all together ... truth is.. with the other races involved they are what tears it apart.. its a flawed system.. the only reason it worked before is that races were incomplete and vamp warriors could offset the human mage since they could use both the bow and mele.. the only reason that i suggest this is simple.. if u have a warrior he will be wearing plate.. if u have a ranger he will be wearing ligher armor.. if u have a mage he too will be wearing lighter armour.. and regardless of what race.. even human all will have to pick a class and have to work under the laws of that classes skill caps and restrictions.. look at it this way.. if humans functioned like all the other races... all youd ahve to do is balance the classes... and racial abilities... but that isnt the case now.. currently u have to try and ballance classes... racial abiltities and the fact that humans are ungimped in everything except a lower skill cap.. and like it has been said earlier in this post.. that lower skill cap really means very little in comparason... making humans work like the other races would give you a even starting point to build balance and maintain it... without that.. its highly unlikely u will ever find any cause as hard as u try to balance out the diff classes.. there will always be taht human that doesnt carry a class and can do whatever it likes.. i got several chars that are human that this would effect.. but i can look past my self for the betterment of the shard.. if this was 4 years ago id say hell no to this.. but in the direction things are going.. u honestly can not expect to not have some kind of drastic change like this in order to make it all fit togather right.... if not in the end what u are going to have happen is.. a lot of usless work on races that in the end will be for very little.. i didn't expect anyone to agree with me on this.. but yea. my point im trying to make still remains tho |
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| Author: | Wes [ Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Human Race |
fact of the matter is you need humans to be the way they are. otherwise you will see cookie cutter classes again for races. every warrior will be a frost elf warrior using a two handed weapon. or a frost elf ranger. what about the fact that the classes that have capped healing? like mages? they will become pretty useless for hunting. point is all the casting classes are pretty shitty because of capped healing. i've been tossing around in my head how to get necromancers healing above 50 but no one is going to like the idea that would most likely happen so i haven't posted it. i say no. for 10 years BB knew that he wanted races to have handicaps like warriors not using bows. Bob made it so bows for warriors do 50% less damage. only way this would ever work is if the casting classes got to have healing at least above 75 and i don't see that really ever happening tbh. even with it above 75 i'm still going to say no though. because i still believe humans should have no restrictions. they are also control because they dont have race abilities like 10% more health or sanc or nature heal. |
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| Author: | adam_c [ Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Human Race |
like i said it is a starting point.. Step 1. Make humans function the same as other races Step 2. Balance out all the Classes (mage, ranger, warrior, necro, ect) also balance out each race's racial abilities.. if what i say was done it would not only be frost elf warrior. it would be a variety.. of all races as warriors.. each with their own little spice and same for the other classes... the race part would be like a different falvor that you'd sprinkle on your class... Would you want your mage to nature heal, or your warrior to be able to use blood, or your ranger the abilirty to use a frost wall... all theese would be diff flavors... Step 3. Enjoy a Balanced "class" system.. instead of a constant strugle to balance classes.. races.. and the fact of how humnas work differently.. all at the same time.. what i suggest is the exact opposite of cookie cutter builds.. it promotes more exotic builds... but balances out classes.. you cant take how classes work currently as a definite... like i sad.. ud have to bring balance the classes of and racial abilities first.. and your end result would be that a race would be like little spice in your char creation.. and not the core of it.. this is what I see as the core problem currently.. Bob is trying to make the shard pull towards this class system which is fine.. but you have to also be realistic about what will have to go along with it.. and I don't see it any other way.. im sure you'd all like to keep the bad ass do all human but.. just think.. what effects you will also effect everyone else... so its not like anyone will be getting ass raped by a change.. to balance classes you MUST have a good starting point.. and humans sticking out from the rest racially is the exact opposite of a good starting point. and currently what you have now is the reason you will see cookie cutter builds.. not from what i suggest. currently u are going to see one type of pvp char.. human.. with what i suggest the only option you have is diveristy.. and if all classes were balanced.. ud have a good pvp system on top of that to boot.. |
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| Author: | chips LL [ Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Human Race |
adam, people already gave you a clear answer lol give it up, its not happening... |
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| Author: | Dedo [ Thu Nov 11, 2010 3:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Human Race |
the shard is balanced towards humans therefore humans are the control group... |
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| Author: | adam_c [ Thu Nov 11, 2010 4:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Human Race |
maybe 4 years ago.. but its not the same obsidian these are the kind of results i expected tbh.. i knew how this subject would be thought of by the community.. but still me personally i think at this point.. it would be the best move to make but yea thats just my opinion |
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| Author: | Dedo [ Fri Nov 12, 2010 1:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Human Race |
even though obs has changed the goal is and always has been to be balanced towards humans. They want there to be consequences to choosing a race character, so that there are more reasons to choose human then a race character... |
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| Author: | Rippa [ Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Human Race |
its basically standard to be a human. Dedo i disagree Obsidian changed so much that humans are the most powerful char to play with no skill caps...at all. No limitations. im currently changing from race to human since rangers suck. |
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| Author: | adam_c [ Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Human Race |
its all about requiring humans to have to conform to the same class mold as every other race.. this is my primary goal.. it is a dramatic change and i didn't expect the idea to be supported.. i just wanted to toss it out there if humans had the same class restrictions as every other race it would go to balance out things tremendously.. of course tweaking would be needed but shit.. tweaking is required for any big change.. and as far as racial skills and bonus's go.. the possibilities are endless... lets see humans are known in all other facets of gaming and the role playing community as natural healers... you could toss that into the mix... its pretty simple if u think of it.. instead of even thinking about races.. think about "class" make that your primary thought.. ok you have ranger warrior mage.. ect you keep race's and abilites out of the equation and balance those classes... give humans racial abilities and restrictions weakness's ect.. it will be original things to humans only.. as well as weaknesses humans will have to certain things.. just like all other races.. now that your primary thought process is on making classes balanced.... now you can think of races... consider races to be like the spice that gives ur char flavor.. it will not make or break the char.. but it gives you a lot of different possibilities for diff classes.. for example say i wanted to make a hunter warrior that was going to be outside alot i might consider a wood elf race.. or if i wanted to make a mage that would be able to use ice walls to pk.. id pick an ice elf.. or if i wanted to make a ranger that could use blood and have vamp abilities i could pick a vampire.. or say i wanted to make a mage that was an extremely good healer..(example) i could pick a human do you see where i am going with this.. currently u will not be able to balance classes because humans do not fall into the same category.. it messes up the system with such things as a human warrior being able to use a bow and melee at the same time.. and mages.. mages should be restricted in armor.. not just race wise.. mages should be restricted to light ar. when was the last time u seen a mage in the role playing or fantasy enviroment be in a full suit of plate armor... HOWEVER the system will have to be balanced to their light ar.. cause currently weapons deal so much dmg and mage casting is so slow that its not balanced even in plate.. but that is a whole nother issue in itself.. the end result will be much more diverse and enjoyably balanced pvp system with a lot of diff types floating about.. currently as far as pvp is involved u are only going to see humans.. it really dont mater what the goal has been or is... with the implementation of classes... something like this is required to bring balance.. i hate to see so many ppl disagree but on the subject of balance and pvp.. i consider myself to be pretty open minded and knowledgeable on the subject... and im just trying to help out in my own way.. and this what i consider to be the best thing for the shard.. just think to urself how nice it would be.. if you could only balance out the classes... toss in race for a lil added variety and have the whole system balanced..... think on that for a few before u are so quick to deny the idea.. currently humans stand in the way of any ability to balance out classes... reason being... they do not have them and they should.. bottom line |
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