well it wasnt really timing, it was reaction time / your screen size / and ur hand eye cordination... / maybe some good in game macros...

like b4 i would always have the pots on last object, other wise when i see a mage start casting, i try clicking the pots and i miss the pot then click the mage,,,

but ya,, so i think its not really skill, if u play FPS ur likely to be able to do this easily... or were, i loved the aspect of the game tbh. i did it alot when i was actually good on sub lol..


well point is,


i loved that system, and you dont really need to know the variables to re-implement them,
thinking of it balance wise now, mages are complaining alot more then warriors (as warriors system is basic and doesnt change much, azi would argue, but its simple as to get from A-B pvp wise with a mage is more then doing it through a warrior...thats not really arguable) but if it was a way to implement this and maintain balance, i think that would be best...
and as judas says, i have a warrior and mage,,, (+ a tank) each of them are trained equivalent to each other, (im probably best on my warrior but dont use her) so its not really me trying to get an advantage or nuttin

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king of the run on sentence.

I like this topic alot of good info and thoughts

I agree that poision pot fizzle was good because it took skill on both sides.
Warriors wud have to get there timing right on the pot or think of other ways to dodge FS (invising Parrying Resisting) and mages wud use on mages when they see a fs but it also took skill on when to fs and when to pot on a mage aswell.

The hat meding was awesome because witht he macro u have a delay where if ur in war mode u aheva macro to take u out and u cant use spells durring because u fizzle ur spells and it kept u on ur toes.

Speed of Cure would have to be a yes. The hole cure poision heal combos with mages was awesome on old system, because u wud have to use ur brain to catch them out on something.

Fizzling spells, lighting and harm fizzle spells but they r both too slow. so when u wall a mage theres no way of stopping them from recalling because the spells are too slow poison pots dnt work and u can summon a bear and get it to attack intime.

I found that warriors fizzle mages loads with mele

Finally we get the opinion of someone who knows something about PvP. In the old system there were lots of tactics, techniques, tricks, you name it. I can't think of one that hasn't been buggered. You never knew what to expect from your opponent. Now, it's sooo bloody easy... oh wait! unless you crash (happens way too often).

Like I said before, there should be no debate. There has been little or no improvement to the old system. So, let's focus on trying to remember how it used to be (we'll choose to forget the bugs, some of which were, in fact, eliminated);

Firstly, immediate fizzling with pots is unquestionable, atm you can just plain recall away (provided you don't crash by the opponent's wall);

Secondly, one should not be able to heal through poison, however, cure should be faster and not fizzleable by melee;

Thirdly, recall has to be HIGHLY fizzleable, by melee, or any form of attack;

And, in last place for now, crashing has to be dealt with.

How? No idea. I don't have access to the code. Hopefully, Bob will have some insight.

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Judas [Cult] The Traitor
Doro [Cult] The Zealot



'And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.' - Friedrich Nietzsche

with ur second option (no healign through poision)

Warriors - if they r poisioned and heal with bandies they should cure the poision and heal half what they wud heal.

Mages - same with mages for bandies but they should not be able to use heal through poision unless they are cured ( this wud mean the cure spell would ahve to be faster like before)

but i have just released that the reason we can heal through poision is it because of the invul bug?

I don't think so. Invul bug was fixed before, during t3a, and it didn't heal through poison.

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Judas [Cult] The Traitor
Doro [Cult] The Zealot



'And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.' - Friedrich Nietzsche

um, everyones opinion who has been active is basically equal seeing as the system has changed... and seeing you had to explain the invul bug wasn't around to BM, that basically invalidates that statement right there... please don't make comments that are obviously only said because he's in your guild... it gives a sense of incredibility to your posts, and makes you look like a douche... which you go out of your way to look like anyway.. probably on purpose.


anyway, as for balance, I don't think recall should have any special failure rate, because it is just anther spell. what I do agree on is the fact that mages need to have the ability to fizzle other mages WITHOUT the use of bears (which is luck when the bear attacks) and add a system that takes some talent to fizzle the oponent, (not magic arrow) but maybe the slower low spells and big spells should fizzle things, such as fireball and harm, but only a percentage of the time.. so spamming fireball like they did magic arrows would be ineffiecent.. but have a use in fizzling mages with high timings...

ALSO, I think the rate in which you fizzle from mellee should be dropped it's pretty ridiculous.. necros just WONT have a chance vrs a decent warrior... WONT lol

maybe kinda like race abilitys but when you GM a mellee skill.. that would be cool.. so races would have the GM abilitys (kinda like tamers have the ability to step on horse isle and spawn it) a gm swordsman would have a skill to sweep legs or something, fizzling mages but doing LITTLE damage... but its a fizzle + lower regular fizzles would give everyone what they want..

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king of the run on sentence.

what's up with the overuse of the word "douche"... such a childish word... well, i guess that explains it.

anyway. there ought to be not only a way for mages to fizzle one another, but for warriors to fizzle mages not only by luck (melee); so my guess is, remove all fizzling from melee (it didn't use to fizzle in the past, except for bows), and add instant fizzle back to poison pots...

or...

we could just go on with a nice debate forever..

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Judas [Cult] The Traitor
Doro [Cult] The Zealot



'And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.' - Friedrich Nietzsche

ok ya w,e douche is a childish word.. nice comeback.. anyway--


well more data the more ideas get thrown out so id rather debate.. its what a forum is used for....


anyway I thought mellee weps did fizzle in the past.. just NOTHING near the rate they do now?
I might be mistaken though.

even if , im sure there was always multiple ways for someone to fizzle a mage even if it was through the use of a bow... still fizzling him..

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king of the run on sentence.

I agree with Judas

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Deathwish
PuddleCakes

Can Bob just fix this? It's bloody annoying not being able to fizzle a recall...

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Judas [Cult] The Traitor
Doro [Cult] The Zealot



'And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.' - Friedrich Nietzsche

I only agree on fizzling with poison pots, recalling is ridiculous, they can jsut recall away when there losing. The rest shoudl be mroe discussed though

Well considering there is an item that blocks recalling out of an area, that should solve the recall issue while still requiring skill. Went in weeks ago with the crafting patch. There's also one that blocks recalling in, but no one's found it yet. Mages have ways to deal with both of these, which will go into in more detail in the second half of crafting patch when i explain a lot of the new items

As for fizzling with pots, my question is what "skill" does a mage have to prevent such nonsense, because currently suggestion is pots go to instant fizzle and be undodgeable, which pretty much puts mages at a huge disadvantage since they literally have to count on their opponent not being able to do this to cast any spells.

As for the warrior ability to fizzle, currently it looks like it'd be gained at 70-80% weapon skill, and have a relatively long cooldown(7-20) seconds somewhere). This way mages aren't at the mercy of warriors and can't cast a single spell. Whether this skill woudl have a requirement of staying in range during use, to add skill to both warriors to use and mages to dodge, i can't say.
IF this was put in, poison pots would get their current fizzle rate reduced to compensate to probably around 25%. To prevent both being combo'd being unreasonably strong.

That's my thoughts on the discussion so far, so discuss balance as you wish given those thoughts.
I'm all for adding skill to the game that requires the player to be skilled, not just the character. But if i'm going to add it i want it to be on both sides, not just warriors gain skillful tricks and mages can't do anything about it.

oh my googles! isnt that what i suggested?

but apparently i have no idea what balance is:(

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king of the run on sentence.

Well considering there is an item that blocks recalling out of an area, that should solve the recall issue while still requiring skill.

I can make these PM me with offers if anyone wants to buy them.
They last for 60 seconds so no1 can recall away from the 4x4 (size of a wall i belive)

Please dont reply on here tho cos i dont wanna jack the thread.

I agree,but right now it seems that only race characters will have this ability, which in my opinion is unfair for the humans characters, which have no racial abilites. Anyways poison pots always use to fizzle, make it so that they keep the same rate they have right now, but that they give a 90% fizzle rate to recall because that is the only real problem. I would hate to see p pots even weaker then they are now, but I didnt think about the item that stops recalling. Anyways, I guess the ability would be cool, but even there if a mage is running around hell still recall.