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A potential problem
http://www.dxgaming.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19410		 Page 2 of 4
Author:  Barney [Reapers] [ Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:15 am ]
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I'd be more than happy for you to put me in a "ring" against a GM mage to show you what I mean Bob, you'll see it just gets a little silly

There is a way to balance all this increase swing speed for maces and disable reactive armour :D

However you shouldnt need to really even do that - The thing i admire about this shard is the no nonsence - no silly weps - true old skool - how it should be.

I really do think it may just be best to get rid of the races and just have all humans - that way no one can be unhappy as we will all be equal
Author:  _Iori_ [ Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:45 am ]
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100% agree with u IF warrior and mage human can get 780 skill cap and crafter humans get 680

races some times just limit ur char alot

U can leave NECROs maybe some day some year they got fixed
Author:  Drizzt [ Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:51 pm ]
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you are a bit off base iori all humans are already fine with current cap.
Author:  belgarion [ Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:34 pm ]
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IMO if you are looking for to truly balance pvp then no one type of char should have to use any type of tricks like triple walls etc. If a warrior has to wall a mage to kill him or a mage cannnot survive in a wall then to me that is not exactly balanced.
Author:  chips LL [ Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:43 pm ]
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well on that same note belg if people have around the same skills and can't kill each other that small trick might decide the battle ya know?
tricks i dont think tricks ever have to be used but they always will be used just due to peopel wanting to not loose that loot, I am talking all legal tricks btw
Author:  Barney [Reapers] [ Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:47 am ]
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belgarion wrote:IMO if you are looking for to truly balance pvp then no one type of char should have to use any type of tricks like triple walls etc. If a warrior has to wall a mage to kill him or a mage cannnot survive in a wall then to me that is not exactly balanced.
I think my fellow LoVver you have just hit the nail on the head - and better put than I could ever have.
Author:  GMBob [ Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:52 am ]
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Can you expand a bit on that belgarion?

Because it sounds to me like you're saying mages shouldn't run around to avoid being hit, and warriors shouldn't bother trying to melee, and they should stand and let each other fight.

Every thing you do that isn't automatic is a "trick" in some form or another. Whether it's mages hiding behind a wall and popping out to cast a quick spell to avoid archery, warrior throwing poison potions to fizzle a spell, or whether it's warriors using stonewalls to try to entrap mages(By the way, have any mages tried the mass dispel spell? Works wonders on stonewalls).

So yeah, that's what it's sounding like, so i'd like you to expand on what is/is not considered a trick.
Author:  Barney [Reapers] [ Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:14 am ]
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I think what he means Bob is that although there are tricks when pvp'ing the throwing 4 stonewalls shouldnt be the only way a warrior can kill a mage now (and thats if you have a wep fast enough to fizzle them otherwise you still have no chance)

I think thats the argument, it cant be balanced if there is only one little trick that works enough to let you kill a mage. It shpuld be down to skill, timing, weapons, and tactics.
Author:  chips LL [ Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:30 pm ]
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true barney

and side note the popping out to avoid archery will never work because the archery timer still counts down when there behind the wall so soon as he pops out a arrow will hit him basicly forcing a fizzle with the current system
Author:  belgarion [ Sun Aug 17, 2008 1:40 pm ]
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The outcome of pvp should be decided by 2 things char training and pvp skill not whoever gets who in a wall. I think Barney said it best the old way a good warrior could stand against a good mage, the only thing that was a bit overpowered was ra and poison. So to me the best way to fix that would be keep it the same only bring down the strength of ra and poison and not totally rescript the entire system. And now the entire system is far more unbalanced then the old system ever was.
Author:  GMBob [ Sun Aug 17, 2008 2:32 pm ]
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Well being as mages can get out of walls (most mages forget this), I do not think it's only down to who gets who in a wall, i was merely pointing out a possible idea.

And as i said before, a lot of this shit is still getting put back to how it was in the old system. But if you mean every player who could have one, had a vampire warrior, then no, the system was not balanced, and will never return to that point. Races are supposed to be an option, not the de-facto law. Rigth now race warriors lack bows because that was deemed a fair tradeoff for the extra abilities and skills, and it was a way to give people an option for going a race character without making it to where no-one wants one(and before you bitch there have been over 2 dozen race characters who have chosen to be warriors so far).

Yes a lot will want to go human, but that was the point. :)

Anyway as i said, hit/miss rates are getting adjusted, as is fizzle, and more will get done as time goes on. Iv'e been doing almost daily small tweaks to combat, so keep checking it out and posting what you think about it. It'll take awhile, as it's really had to get it exactly right being as you can change one of over 100 different variables and it'll affect EVERYTHING in the system.
Author:  belgarion [ Sun Aug 17, 2008 3:18 pm ]
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Not a lot, pretty much all will go human or the ones that are truly not happy with the changes just won't play. What good is 100 extra points if no other skill is going to help you? What good is a vamp warrior if you can't fight a mage who attacks you in town because you can't wall him so you have no hope. And yes you can get out of walls but the time it takes you to open 4 walls would for sure be death. All of these things should have probably been considered too. Humans were always used but not as warriors because human warriors sucked, the solution to that is to make vamp warriors suck too? Doesn't make much sense to me. Would you want to play a game where every choice of your prefered style of player sucked? You can take it as whining or w/e you want but i am not the only one that thinks this way and it shows.
Author:  chips LL [ Sun Aug 17, 2008 3:38 pm ]
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gm human warriors are OK if you have everything GMed lolz specially magic resist
but if everyone sucks then no one sucks DURR
Author:  belgarion [ Sun Aug 17, 2008 3:48 pm ]
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chips LL wrote:gm human warriors are OK if you have everything GMed lolz specially magic resist
but if everyone sucks then no one sucks DURR
Are you retarded? The entire thread is about mages vs warriors. In the present system a vamp warrior unless he manages to get a mage outside, and in 4 walls is toast. Otherwise the mage just runs around spamming fs. And no human warriors are not ok compared to a good mage because especially with vet bonuses lowered you cannot gm enough skills to make a difference. What will probably happen is you will see everyone go human and go tank and pure warrior will be a thing of the past.
Author:  Dario [ Sun Aug 17, 2008 7:15 pm ]
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belgarion wrote:What will probably happen is you will see everyone go human and go tank and pure warrior will be a thing of the past.
noooooooooooooo....
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