DX Gaming :: Classes Discussion Thread

GMBob wrote:Sounds to me like you are not using your weapons correctly.

I'll blame most of that on the nonparty system obsidian's been encouraging for awhile, but let me outline this scenario for you.

You have two characters, a ranger and a warrior.

Which one do you think will live longer vs mr. skeleton king?

The ranger.

Now, admittedly, both won't live very long period.

Now imagine if they both worked together, the warrior drawing the skeleton king's hits and distraction, while the ranger wails on him for damage.

That works pretty well. Such group activities is hopefully going to be encouraged now that, as you've found, dungeons are a little more treacherous, especially to imbalanced groups, such as all melee chars or all mages.

The same could be applied to pvp. One use i haven't seen of archery in a long long time is for team pvp battles. The warriors fight the mages, the bowmens job is to fizzle them, so even if they get away from the warriors they still run the risk of not casting all the time.

I do not see archery becomming a "useless and unused skill" just because every warrior won't have it. In fact i see it becomming more properly used, as a support skill by some characters. Especially not with the alterations to fletching. Not much, just bringing it more in line with the other weapon crafting skills and reimplementing some of it's basic perks.

As for echo's concerns, lets start from the top:

Warrior class is not able to use bows. This was covered already in many topics/discussions, so really no point going into it here.

Mage/WarMage/Necromancers can't gm healing. This is on purpose.
Healing was never supposed to be a magic users crutch. Especially, as most of you should have noticed already, that having magery skill at all increases your healing delay. Magic using classes have a magic heal to balance this out.

And yes, i agree that bulking up classes would be ince, and giving them all the ability to do everything, but again, that brings us back to the original issue. We are NOT overpowering or rebalancing the game to class/race characters. The game is supposed to be balanced to the 680 human.
The only way we're giving people everything without limitation that is by dropping everyone back to 680 skillcap and gm everything. and numerous players have already said they don't want that.

Author:	Dedo [ Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:50 pm ]
Post subject:
apparently we are supposed to talk about this here....I think this only really concerns me since i don't think many others maybe ambi? GM'd tinkering. I want my smith to be able to tinker... Bob says that the Artificer is supposed to be the more creative of the two "crafting" characters. which i can see. however ANY crafting skill takes imagination... Look at all the things you can make with carpentry none of it is straight forward, if you were to pick up a chisel today and start making something would it just be a rout task or would it take creativity? Carpenters Make paintings! Trophies, Ship models.... all of which are pretty artsy imo personally i think there is way more thought in making any of the above mentioned then in ANY of the items tinkerers can make... plus you need ingots and wood to make tinkering goods... tinkerering just makes sense to have on a smith! ><

Author:	belgarion [ Tue Jul 08, 2008 5:27 pm ]
Post subject:
i would like to see gm tinkering added to the smith and maybe putting the magery cap back on. My wood elf was always capped at 30 magery before. I don't see any point in having gm magery on a crafter anyway.

Author:	Barney [Reapers] [ Sun Aug 03, 2008 8:07 am ]
Post subject:
I think this has all been geared towards playing together in groups, in which case, it work work

Author:	Cybershaman [ Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:20 pm ]
Post subject:
Barney [Reapers] wrote:I think this has all been geared towards playing together in groups, in which case, it work work Yeah, how does it help old hermits like me and OtisMcOtis? Heh, heh...

Author:	belgarion [ Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:52 pm ]
Post subject:
Barney [Reapers] wrote: it work work Huh?

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Classes Discussion Thread http://www.dxgaming.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19224	Page 2 of 5

Author:	Cybershaman [ Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:04 pm ]
Post subject:
belgarion wrote: Barney [Reapers] wrote: it work work Huh? don't don't you get it get it? Heh, heh... I think the technical term for that is "brain fart". However, I got it got it.

Author:	sinspawnvip [ Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:28 am ]
Post subject:
lol @ hermits i kinda like the idea of encouraging group hunting, why wouldnt it work? rangers may get owned quick but you can use them as an animal tamer and keep them out of the pvp scene, would be cool to have a tamer that could defend themselves against a wild goat. and hey if the time comes that you should have to help out your homie when your sittin on your stang and hes in trouble, toss a few shots and if the heat gets up head on out. Heh i think im gunna make a ranger

Author:	Rob [ Sat Dec 13, 2008 4:45 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Classes Discussion Thread
A scenario that perfectly describes what Bob was saying about group hunts is fighting a sprite fencer and archer...the fencer draws your singular attack (if you're a warrior) while the ranger hits you with a barrage of arrows...I've died too many more times than I'd like to admit from it. But why not have the best of both worlds? Have a warrior or mage for hunting alone, and a ranger for group hunts? Seems a simple solution to me - but that's only b/c I have the extra char space for another char, unlike some others.

Author:	belgarion [ Sun Dec 14, 2008 7:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Classes Discussion Thread
Having a ranger in my opinion is an absolute waste of char space. Having a char that can only use bows is crap any way you look at it. I think really you are just better off with a human warrior. You lose 100 skill points but there are skills you can go without archery or a good melee skill isnt one of them.

Author:	Drizzt [ Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Classes Discussion Thread
bobs rangers would have been good but bb changed the way bob wanted to do them and now they are too weak like before. maybe it is just too hard to balance them, they will either be too strong or too weak. i really thought bob's initial build was going to be interesting but we never got to try it out.

Author:	Falin [ Sun Mar 01, 2009 4:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Classes Discussion Thread
hmm.. i saw no chance for a poly mage anywhere...cant gm healing or some battle skills needed. and the SUPER power is still vampires..there is NO downers except you cant use a bow. no real biggie. you can still gm all fighting skills you need and hardly any minuses on healing or resist..no biggie, considering mages cant gm most skills they need AND the ones they cant gm you can hardly take very high..not mage friendly at all!

Author:	Drizzt [ Sun Mar 01, 2009 8:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Classes Discussion Thread
lol no bow is a real biggie trust me.

Author:	Dreeb [ Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Classes Discussion Thread
Please Bob, Will you look into my "new Player" account, I sent you a PM. I was reffered to this shard by a long time player and I'm aware of the changes taking place right now but, if you get time will you please look into my PM. I'm a long time UO player and I like the settings on this shard. I would like to get started as soon as possible I know you are very busy at this point in time but if you get time or see this message please look into my PM.

Author:	chips LL [ Sat Mar 14, 2009 9:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Classes Discussion Thread
try pming him lol, insteado f posting on a thread,,,

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Author:	blob [ Thu Apr 09, 2009 8:22 am ]
Post subject:	Re:
GMBob wrote:Sounds to me like you are not using your weapons correctly. I'll blame most of that on the nonparty system obsidian's been encouraging for awhile, but let me outline this scenario for you. You have two characters, a ranger and a warrior. Which one do you think will live longer vs mr. skeleton king? The ranger. Now, admittedly, both won't live very long period. Now imagine if they both worked together, the warrior drawing the skeleton king's hits and distraction, while the ranger wails on him for damage. That works pretty well. Such group activities is hopefully going to be encouraged now that, as you've found, dungeons are a little more treacherous, especially to imbalanced groups, such as all melee chars or all mages. The same could be applied to pvp. One use i haven't seen of archery in a long long time is for team pvp battles. The warriors fight the mages, the bowmens job is to fizzle them, so even if they get away from the warriors they still run the risk of not casting all the time. I do not see archery becomming a "useless and unused skill" just because every warrior won't have it. In fact i see it becomming more properly used, as a support skill by some characters. Especially not with the alterations to fletching. Not much, just bringing it more in line with the other weapon crafting skills and reimplementing some of it's basic perks. As for echo's concerns, lets start from the top: Warrior class is not able to use bows. This was covered already in many topics/discussions, so really no point going into it here. Mage/WarMage/Necromancers can't gm healing. This is on purpose. Healing was never supposed to be a magic users crutch. Especially, as most of you should have noticed already, that having magery skill at all increases your healing delay. Magic using classes have a magic heal to balance this out. And yes, i agree that bulking up classes would be ince, and giving them all the ability to do everything, but again, that brings us back to the original issue. We are NOT overpowering or rebalancing the game to class/race characters. The game is supposed to be balanced to the 680 human. The only way we're giving people everything without limitation that is by dropping everyone back to 680 skillcap and gm everything. and numerous players have already said they don't want that. lets start from the top.... this is not world of warcraft dont force me to party to pvm. when i left the only "group pvp" was like 4v1 or so on... plus from what ive seen not many online to really group pvp but maybe that will change.... i have always thought that warriors shouldnt be able to gm the archery skill but capping it at like 70 would be fine they are first and foremost melee but most warriors in books and what not can atleast shoot a bow somewhat... having healing despite the delay with magery is essential to pvp so what if there is a delay... you dont use regs, your enemy cant see that you are trying to use band aids, and if you have high enough anatomy you can cure poison with out casting which is also very handy. also when pollyd id rather bandy heal than sit there wasting mana and regs and time plus if you use them tandemly healing is quicker. and yes essentially currently a human "warrior" will be able to overpower a raced mage. and a human "mage" should be able to overcome a raced "warrior" so why not make humans choose classes to? just a thought....